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Interviews | V Kishore Chandra Deo, Panchayati Raj Minister talks to Liz Mathew, Elizabeth Roche and Anuja
V Kishore Chandra Deo, Panchayati Raj Minister talks to Liz Mathew, Elizabeth Roche and Anuja

V Kishore Chandra Deo, Panchayati Raj Minister talks to Liz Mathew, Elizabeth Roche and Anuja

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published Published on Apr 25, 2013   modified Modified on Apr 25, 2013
-Live Mint

 

Panchayati raj minister V. Kishore Chandra Deo on how the system can function more effectively

With the amendments that effected mandatory constitutional powers to panchayats and urban local bodies marking 20 years, V. Kishore Chandra Deo, Union minister for panchayati raj, acknowledged in an interview that the units of local self-governance could function more effectively. He also suggested that the three-tier system of panchayats could be improved to meet challenges only if they were given more financial autonomy. Deo also said there should be a campaign to make the urban local bodies sharpen their functioning. Edited excerpts:

* It's the 20th anniversary of the Panchayati Raj Act. Looking back at the performance and the functioning of the panchayati raj institutions (PRI), are you happy?

Probably the panchayats could function even better, there is scope for making them more dynamic, more effective, improving them. But in the last 20 years, we have made a lot of changes, lot of steps have been taken and the results have been visible at the ground level. As you are aware, this is in the concurrent list, a state subject. Every state has its own Panchayati Raj Act. As far as the centre is concerned, we issue guidelines, we pursue the case, we send some funds to see that panchayats have been more effective.

The response of some states has been good, it has been lukewarm from some states and, of course, couple of states have not held panchayat elections for years. Like, for instance, Jharkhand has not had its panchayat elections for the last 32 years. Jammu and Kashmir had it after 12 years but the fact that it has been held peacefully was a very positive sign. But powers have yet to be devolved.

* The biggest criticism has been the structure. On top of the three tiers, you have a district magistrate, a bureaucrat, which looks like an impediment in their functioning.

This cannot be generalized and is different case to case. It all depends on what kind of devolution is taking place. The states are required to evolve the three Fs-funds, functions and functionaries. So, wherever the funds and functions have been devolved, the role of the magistrate has just been supervisory. Panchayats do have the authority and powers to function and those panchayats which have done well have gained from such a structure.

* For effective democracy at the grassroots level, there has to be some financial power, which is absent in the PRI system. The institutions do not have any revenue-raising powers. How then do you expect them to function effectively?

As you have rightly put, funds are very, very important for them to have some kind of role to play. The decisions will be meaningless if they do not have any funds to implement them. This is why, I say, one of the requirements for effective functioning of the panchayats (is) the states will have to devolve funds. There are 29 subjects listed in the 11th schedule for the panchayats. Some states have devolved as many as 11 out of these, some have done more and some less. Depending on the nature of the devolution, certain percentage of the taxes have been allocated for the panchayats. Taxes like house taxes and entertainment taxes go to the panchayats in some states-it all depends on how a particular state deals with the subjects.

It is essential that the panchayats have funds at their disposal for their functioning and developmental activities.

* One of the major achievements of the PRI Act has been women's empowerment, getting women to play a key role in democracy. However, these rights were given to them without any capacity building. What have you done in this regard?

Capacity building has been a continuous effort. We, from the central government, give assistance to all states.

The National Institute of Rural Development (NIRD) is there in Hyderabad and there are six institutes of rural development in six states that give training to elected representatives of panchayats. In Jammu and Kashmir, after the elections were held, there were nearly 40,000 elected panchayat members and we got all of them trained, we sent them to different states and some to NIRD, (as a) result of which they could interact with the local teams in panchayats. This was a capacity building exercise and has been done on a regular basis for the panchayati raj members in other states too.

* As you said, many states have not devolved powers. What can the central government do about this?

My role earlier was just to motivate, cajole them, issue directions, issue guidelines, to have workshops, send my bureaucrats to interact with them. I have interacted with the chief ministers. Now, I have worked out a new scheme called Rajiv Gandhi Panchayat Sashaktikaran Yojana (RGPSY) for which some money also has been budgeted, around `6,000 crore. I propose to give an assistance to the state governments on a 75-25 basis with 75% from the centre and 25% from the states, for the northeastern states and scheduled areas it's 90-10 basis, to ensure that the states and the Union territories are committed to this programme. The RGPSY is a demand-driven scheme so we are asking the states what they want and it's not as if I am telling them what to do.

I have made some conditions, such as (adhering) to certain constitutional principles, or elections should be held within six months of the term ending, or that devolution of power should take place etc. Unless they comply with it, funds will not be disbursed. We are trying to evolve a system to reward them on the basis of their performance, which could be an incentive for their compliance. The response has been positive.

* Why are urban local bodies (ULBs) not as effective as panchayats?

I think probably because there is more camaraderie, more homogeneity and more feeling of being one at the panchayat level whereas in urban bodies, urbanization has taken a toll. Lifestyle is different and the difference does exist. A campaign will have to be carried out to make them more effective.

* With the demography changing and with faster urbanization, how do you think panchayats and ULBs can handle urbanization and liberalization?

This is a part of life. These are changes that come in and are automatically adapted. (This is) precisely why, to deal with such a situation, they should be given a little more leverage, and leverage means little more of autonomy. Autonomy means funds, functions, executive powers, because they do not have any legislative powers, but as far as other powers are concerned, it would yield a little more space.

* What are your expectations from the Mani Shankar Aiyar report on panchayati raj?

I have not seen the report, I have not read it. I don't have an idea of what the report contains. But Mani Shankar Aiyar is quite experienced as far as panchayati raj institutions are concerned. He is committed to the cause and there are eminent people who have been dedicated to the cause of local governance and panchayati raj, who are members of this committee. Once we get the report, we would go through the details, and if there are any gaps in the functioning, we would surely try to fix them. The whole purpose of actually forming this committee was to identify the areas which need to be addressed and taken care of.

* What do you think has been the big achievement of the PRI Act in 20 years?

The major achievement of the PRI Act is that the panchayati raj institutions have been recognized in constitutional terms. Secondly, apart from PRI, what I would want to stress on are the gram sabhas. Gram sabhas are the entire body of the village.

Any voter can be a member of the gram sabha. The panchayat elections may or may not be held. But gram sabhas are continuous (bodies). They would never cease to exist until the habitation of the village itself disappears.

When you have a gram sabha meeting, I have noticed from my personal experience, that when they meet...when a particular issue is discussed in the gram sabha, generally the ultimate decision is taken for the good of the village, irrespective of party differences.

Even for MGNREGS (Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme), it is the gram sabhas which are supposed to decide what works need to be taken up. If the gram sabha feels that a land needs to be tilled or some other work needs to be done, that is going to be useful for the entire village and not only for someone particular. So, in my opinion, gram sabhas have always been effective and vibrant. Gram sabhas will strengthen the basic roots of the panchayati raj pyramid or system.

This is the second in a series of reports on panchayati raj 20 years after it was given a new constitutional framework.

Live Mint, 23 April, 2013, http://www.livemint.com/Specials/xH4Ok02xpMyjPTrZcGdX9K/Ki
shore-Chandra-Deo-Theres-scope-for-making-panchayats-mor.h
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Live Mint, 23 April, 2013, http://www.livemint.com/Specials/xH4Ok02xpMyjPTrZcGdX9K/Kishore-Chandra-Deo-Theres-scope-for-making-panchayats-mor.html


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